On the song Stolen Moments there is E+7 flat 9#9 chord and also an A+7 chord. Stolen moments is mostly a D blues so are there any suggestions for scales or chords i should play? Well....as the first respondant answered......the basic E major triad includes the tonic E + G# and B. A +7 implies simply an E7 chord, that is, the basic triad plus a 7 which we'll assume is "D" as there is no indication of major 7 that would make it a D#.
A b9 and #9 cancel one another out...it's either one OR the other. Perhaps you mis-typed and meant b9.which would yield a n F-natural stacked on top of the chord. For the record, however, a #9 would be a x9 -or- double-sharped F, where x=the designation for a double sharp.
Edit: Reponse to "Oh Yeah". I'm not trying to sound "defensive" here..but.....I am aware that a + can be used to label a chord as augmented. Likewise a "- " or (superscripted "o") can also be used for a diminished chord.
I simply didn't see that as the chord is out of context, and I'm not familiar with the song. Therefore, am agreeing with you that the "+" in this case may very well designate augmented, as opposed to addiditive.
I'm still not comfortable with the b9 #9 with regard to proper labeling or tonality. That is, if there is a single 9 in the tune, how can it be both flatted and sharped? If, however, there are two iterations of the 9, of course they can each be subjected to different accidentals. It seems like an academic exercise to "sort out" this chord (as labeled) and using any number of voicings....I suppose it can be justified. I'd hate like hell to see what really amounts a tone cluster written like this though and try to interpret it "on the fly."
And......consider the dissonance. When we break this down and eliminate all the accidents for simplicities sake....we're left with a chord? that consists of an E and F-natural within the construct.
In addition, I took this literally as a Classical forum. I just can't see Mozart, Hayden, and others from the classical era ever using a set of intervals like this. If it were post-20th. century modernism, or jazz........well, anything goes. E G# B#(same as C) D
You really can't have a flat 9 AND a sharp 9 at the same time, but those two notes would F and Fx(same as G) The first guy is correct about the pitches.
If you're trying to actually play this chord... ;-) I would suggest starting with a C major chord, then add a D to it, then put an E on the bottom.
Doesn't sound as strange as its name, does it?
Theoretically, it's supposed to have a G# in it too, but in really extended chords like that, the upper tones are often the most important. You might be OK without the G#, but if not, work it in so it's not right next to the F double-sharp (G nat.)
Without hearing the context, it's hard to give you voicing suggestions.
[edit] Sorry G.B., but a + sign in chord-symbol-speak means Augmented. Also, the #9 and b9 do not cancel each other. It may be a clumsy construction, but both can be used.
peace
. First the E+ indicates an augmented triad: (E, G#, B#. )
Then the additional notes would be the 7th : (D) , the b9 : (F) and the #9 (Fx <double sharp>).
However, if you take the notes for what they are in sound you have a D diminished chord (D , F , Ab) with a C major chord ( C, E, G) on top = (D,F,Ab,C,E,G).
What you really have in sound is a Dm11(b5) chord - D minor eleventh chord with a flat fifth.
A quite respectable sounding chord if voiced : D, F, G# , B# , E, Fx !! Or voice it E, G# , B# , D , Fx ( leaving out the F). You can experiment with other voicings to get the sound you want.
Musician, composer, teacher. The two altered 9ths don't cancel each other out. It's just that there a lot of enharmonics going on and this chord is "simply" the seventh degree of F minor (ascending - that's also the scale to use with it).
It has a diminished fourth instead of the normal minor third and a flat sixth instead of the normal diminished fifth, and never mind that the diminished fourth is spelled as a major third and the minor sixth as an augmented fifth in chord notation - it may really fit the tonal context better if the chord is e.g. a dominant chord which accomodates the blue notes in A.
[Edit:]
About the progression: Note that the altered ninths of the E chord are the same notes as the augmented fifth and the seventh of the A chord. That's a start. I think Freddy Hubbard used C-D-F-G there in his first chorus, and D minor pentatonic (with appropriate alterations of A and Ab) may get you through the whole piece.
If you want to emphasize the notes that change, they might be (using the same +-9 alteration on the A chord, i.e. the scale of Bb minor ascending): E-Ab-D in bar 9 and Eb-A-Db in bar 10.
A +-9 usually implies a +-5 in this diatonic context, so if the A chord as E# (F), it also has Eb - as opposed to the octotonic scale, which has a pure fifth. Another solution for A+7 is, of course, the whole tone scale.
[Nother edit:]
Since the third in the chord notation translates to a diminished fourth in the scale, the two ninths are really the minor second and the minor third. The augmented fifth is really a minor sixth, and the real fifth is diminshed. So all this is happening in "normal" diatonic territory. The + sign is ambiguous, and I can think of at least two common uses of it.
E+7 can refer to an E major 7th chord (E-G#-B-D#)
E+ can refer to an E augmented chord (E-G#-B#) I don't know what kind of seventh you would most commonly add on top of that (D# or D-natural)
The b9/#9 do not cancel each other out, as someone said, and yes, they can certainly exist in the same chord.
Not knowing Stolen Moments, my best guess is that it's probably:
E - G# - B - D# - F natural - F double-sharp
What's in the melody at this point in the tune? If you're reading from a fake book, sometimes these odd-looking extensions result from trying to consider every melodic note as a chord-tone. The melody might clarify what kind of B, D, and F you should play.
If it's going to a A+7 chord, and is mostly in the context of D blues, then maybe the +7 means it's a dominant 7th chord. That would be yet another interpretation of the +, and a much less standard one, in my (non-jazz) experience. That would lead me to think, maybe:
E - G# - B - D - F natural - F double-sharp
As for what notes you can use over this chord, you can always play it safe and just avoid the seventh (D, of one kind or another)! Also, leave out F#.
I don't know if this helps at all, but good luck! |
