I was just thinking - despite people's warnings about how dangerous thinking could be - ...
People always tend to say that Jupiter is a blessing and Saturn a curse. In some ways I agree with it, because Saturn holds back and Jupiter expands whatever they touch. And in those terms I would prefer to have Jupiter conjunct my Sun than Saturn.
But, answering a question about jerks and nice guys earlier, I noticed something in the question which I've noticed before in my own chart and those of others.
Being nice is associated with being shy and having a low self esteem - a typical Saturn conjunct Sun trademark. Being a jerk is associated with being loud and obnoxious and thinking you're god's gift to women. A typical trademark of Jupiter conjunct Sun; expansion of the ego. Suddenly Jupiter doesn't seem so blessed anymore, does it?
Also, Jupiter holds position in the 2nd house in my chart, causing me to take money for granted, while people with Saturn there will be more (contd.) sensible with their money. Which is, in the long run, a better placement.
So, even though Jupiter might feel like a blessing and Saturn might feel like a curse, in the long run their actual effect is quite the opposite.
What do you think and what are your experiences with it? I think Saturn makes one conservative, cautious.
Jupiter is not all good always. as you know all the planets influence's has their downside, sun conjuct jupiter would indeed bring a larger sense of being. I personally think that this would me more of a selfish aspect.
Saturn is the great teacher.
whats really funny about anyone ruled by saturn is that, its not about holding back, its about learning when to and when not to. its a tideous process, saturn is all about using their resources well. you could even consider words coming out of their mouth resources. if they think its not worth it then they wont say it, if they think its not worth doing then they wont do it.
time and patience would lead to the accomplishment of their goal. as you go on through life with all your wisdom and patience, your now able to lead your life the way you want it.
Saturnian's ussualy are more content/happy/impulsive/funny than any zodiac with their age. all of the obstacles and pessimism that you had, you will realize soon there was a purpose for it, a means to an end. What i have seen is SATURN makes people pay what ever they deserve -righteously.Also it makes people introvert ,shy and thinkers or philosophy and it always keep one connected with past --so it is good in almost every respect.
JUPITER-seems to make people pompous and boasting but also gives an inclination towards religion ,good speech ,good thoughts and purity of mind.But Jupiter does makes one spendthrift and the funny part is -they get the money arranged some how if it is posited positively in the chart.So if some one asks me which one`s better i will always go for Jupiter as far as the materialistic part of the life is concerned but otherwise no planet is better than saturn. Sure, that's right.
But, I think it also depends A LOT on the position of Jupiter in one's chart.
If you look at it your way, it really makes sense because, Saturn is a teacher...he demands work, discipline and practice but, in the end the reward is always worth it.
On the other hand, Jupiter has no restrictions...which also means a lack of control and in case of the ego, this is not that good.
The thing is that Jupiter involves a lack of balance..it's not only that he provides a good self-esteem...but, also a great possibility of being arrogant, as well. While on the other hand, the confidence that Saturn provides is gradually increasing with the gain of experience.
And it also makes sense to me because, I have somehow connected Saturn with wisdom...Saturn is like an old and wise teacher while Jupiter is a happy-go-lucky infant. Jupiter provides the force of the innocent passion which, may for the long-run not be so beneficial.
So, to answer your question, I agree with you. Perhaps it is actually a matter of priorities and that's why they can both be *blessed*. (This is a REALLY good question, BTW)
Personally, I really don't think there's any such thing as a "cursed" planet or planetary placement. I don't believe in "bad guy" planets, just some placements are more challenging than others. Which is not a bad thing, obviously, it's how we grow. If every aspect and planetary influence in the birth chart were easy, we'd all get really bored really fast. In fact, it'd kind of defeat the purpose of being here to begin with (IMO). I also agree that whether or not a planetary position is a good one depends on the context of the entire birth chart.
While I cannot say that having Saturn retro in cancer as the focus of a yod in my chart thrills me (with Jupiter being a part of the yod as well), I can say that considering the rest of my chart (so much air and fire), without that particular placement, I'd be completely uncontrollable, and that WOULD be a bad thing. Ultimately, sometimes something's got to hold you back, until you've got the wisdom and life experience to use the gifts that you've been given in positive ways. Which is kind of funny, because Saturn in Cancer isn't exactly "controlled" all the time. But I'll tell ya, if you don't learn control having that placement, you're in for a whole mess of grief. Either way, you still learn, think I just learned the hard way first. For me, it was enforced familial responsibility and self-sufficience from a very young age. Now, I'm a Sag sun, and an Aqua moon, I don't have a problem with self-sufficience, I can do that. It was the subconscious feeling of responsibility for everyone else that nearly drove me around the bend. Between my clinging yet mostly absent mother (not her fault, someone had to pay the bills and no one else was doing it), my self centered, abusive, womanizing father (a Leo:p), and my crazy depressive Cancer aunt who lived with us for most of my upbringing (16 years, I ended up spending more time with her than I did my parents, unfortunately), who was incredibly jealous of any time my mother spent with me (which wasn't a whole lot to begin with because the woman was always working), and made good and damn sure that I paid for it later when my mother wasn't around to see what was going on. Going to my mom afterwards and telling her what was going on wasn't any good either, because I have a bit of a reputation for being dramatic (leo rising, sag sun, hahaha:)) , and she'd think I was making it up or exaggerating, which really burned me, because if there is one thing that I am NOT, it is a liar. But my aunt would just sit there whining and bawling and pouting every time she was confronted with something that she'd done, wondering why I "hated" her. To this day, I have NO tolerance whatsoever for whining. And I guess she either just told a more convincing story or she lays on a better guilt trip than I can or will ever have the desire to ( my mother's sort of susceptible to the "guilt trip" as well), because she always got away with her garbage. Anyhow, sorry, I am ranting again, I think. The point is, that the adults in the house to a large degree behaved more like children than I did (mom excepted), so therefore when there was any kind of dispute within the environment, rather than being able to go to the "adults" for guidance (who were the source of the dispute most of the time anyhow), I had to learn to resolve things for myself, and adapt my behaviour to suit the other children (oops, I mean people) in the home. I also learned to live without a lot of the emotional support and nurturing that most children take for granted, because I couldn't compete with my aunt's neediness or my father's demands. Who CAN compete with the neediness of a Cancer sun or the selfish demands of a Leo sun male, who thinks the sun rises and sets for his own pleasure? Okay, now back up a bit to all the fire in my chart. Leo ascendant, Sun, Neptune and North Node in Sag, Mars in Aries (and chiron, if it matters). What kind of person would I be without Saturn in Cancer? Tons of air in the chart, too, and not a lot of earth or water (although I do believe that the Sun/Nep conj. contributes greatly to the water in my chart, even if it is in a fire sign). Fun to be with....and smart....but cold and completely self absorbed. (And really bad with money, haha). So, as I said, I learned the hard way about nurturing and compassion (which may have been just as much a sun/nep thing, but whatever, saturn, sun/nep, and jupiter are all in aspect to one another, so it's all related IMO), but I don't think that I would have learned at all any other way. Sucked at the time, yes, but it got the job done and I'm better for it now. The ends justify the means.
Saturn's no curse, it just feels like it sometimes until you start to see what it is that you're supposed to be learning.
Or at least that's the take I've got on it right now. actually i think jupiter is a bit of both Good question, I see your point. I'm a very Saturn ruled individual. I've got Saturn, in Capricorn, sitting right on my ascendant (in the first house). I've also got Venus(1), Mars(12), Neptune(12), and Uranus(12) in Capricorn. And I'm an Aquarian sun(1) & Mercury (1) (Aquarius used to be ruled by Saturn).
People tend to see me as a really nice person... until they really get to know me. Then they see how... intense I can get (moon in Scorpio). I've definately had a hard early life, and I'm still young, and know that it isn't going to get any easier. But in all honesty, I'm very thankful for what's happened in my life. I've experienced so much more than most people my age would, and I know it's made me grow in so many ways. I KNOW that others see me as responsible, tactful, and serious about living my life to its potential.
I also have a really good friend who has Saturn in his first house in Capricorn (but he's got a Sag. asc). He's had a REALLY hard early life, as well. People see him as happy go lucky and goofy, but he's really driven when he's motivated.
As for the Jupiter placement, I've got Jupiter in Cancer in my 6th house. I'm definately lucky when it comes to my health, I've never had many issues with it. Jupiter is exalted in Cancer, and in the house of health and service, I've been told that I'll have a healthy, long life. But with the touch of luck in that house, I tend to overlook my health. For a while I was pretty overweight, and I was in total denial about it. I just overlooked everything I put in my body and... expanded (haha). See, when you have luck in something you tend to take it for granted, and overindulge (Like the gambler who should have stopped before losing their jackpot).
I guess with Jupiter, you're given certain things, and because of that... you can't appreciate them as much. But Saturn will make you work to get what you want, and when you obtain it, it's so much better and rewarding. It is the planet of Karma, after all. |
