I think most ople who seem to enjoy Jazz see very haughty and snobbish. I loathe the martini sipping, cigar smoking suit and tie guys who think any other form of music is for the un-enlightened. Jazz as a musical form itself is very scholastic and high brow and doesn't have soul like the blues.
What do you think? Yes I'm talking about Jazz, mostly free jazz and post bop
Do you sip martinis and smoke cigars in calssical music concerts? Yes. I do. I have often had that same creepy feeling about people who like Jazz. I'm also a blues fan. i agree with u :) The music and the listener cannot be equated.
Jazz and blues have a meeting point in their deepest roots.
It may be that some (but not all) jazz listeners are pretentious in pretending that a sometimes dense and complex musical form requires a higher level of musical sophistication to "get", but that's just their own posturing.
A lot of other jazz fans just love the music, that's all. It's a shame that Jazz is associated with people like that. Jazz isn't in the least bit pretentious, and it certainly isn't high brow.
Jazz is a very broad genre, and, like any musical genre, you will always find a handful of show-off pretentious idiots who try to make out they are something they aren't.
I hardly think you'd have found any "martini sipping, cigar smoking suit and tie guys" listening to Miles Davis at The Isle of Wight in 1970!
And if you want to hear Jazz with soul, just listen to Nina Simone. I like many forms of music including jazz. I'm not pretentious at all. I think it's wrong to generalize what people are, based on what music they like. For example. I hate rap music but I don't think that all people who like to listen to it are gangsters. Uhhhh, there are 43 plus different genres of jazz, what kind are you talking about? There is a lot of jazz with soul. I also have to wonder what location did you see this because many jazz musicians are the totally opposite of what you describe and are laid back.
Classical music snobs are even worse.......... My first husband was a jazz snob. He thought those of us who required a beat were lower on the evolutionary scale. Jazz itself is not pretentious;the musicians sometimes convert jazz to a pretentious style of music.
look at the jazz'origins and you will understand it clearly I know what you mean by that, and it is true with some people. The same goes with classical music.
I do not agree with you that jazz (real jazz) does not have soul like the blues. Perhaps you have not heard the real good stuff.
PS-The music that I listen to most is jazz and Grateful Dead, and I find classical boring. I don't know what that makes me in your opinion.
Wait a second. I just read your additional details that says you are talking about Post Bop. Now, I disagree totally. I think that's the best jazz there is (Eric Dolphy, Bobby Hutcherson, Andrew Hill, Sam Rivers, Jaki Byard). That is the least pretentious music I know of.
The post bop players were already popular being be bop players. They did the opposite of selling out. They left a sure thing to create a new and very adventurous path in music. The jazz snob critics ripped them apart and called them anti jazz. The post bop players didn't need anyone's approval, even the people who had previously praised them. They created their own style of playing. Some people "got it" most didn't. Its not fair to call them pretentious, they were just doing their thing, their way.
As far as having soul, I am sure that you have never heard these songs...
Ghetto Lights by Bobby Hutcherson
Hazy Eve by Jaki Byard
I Can't Get started by Booker Ervin.
When you have heard these three songs, at least, then you should approach the idea that they didn't have soul. Seriously. You're describing people who listen to jazz because they feel it makes them look smart. I'm not in the least bit like that, and neither is any one I know that truly loves the music. Oh and I dont' know what jazz you're referring to, but there is so much much soul in the music. You just gotta check out some of the hard swingin' **** like cannonball adderley and so many others. it's true that jazz can be a little more intellectual than other kinds of music, because it's more complicated, musically. but you don't have to understand it to enjoy it. it certainly has tons of soul, if you can hear it.
but there's a reason who let the dogs out was so popular. stick with the low brow if you prefer. I've never really noticed that myself, really. I love jazz, and most people tell me I'm way too mellow and low maintenance. (Have you listened to Ella Fitzgerald? She seems pretty soulful to me) Some musicians and listeners can be snobbish, no matter what genre. I agree that jazz has its fair share of snobbish people, but having immersed myself in both bluegrass and jazz I have to say that there is no ego greater than that of a bluegrass musician. I'm blue collar, raised blue collar by a jazz loving family.
My father would take me to Preservation Hall because it was only a buck to get in.
He got to see Thelonious Monk, I didn't because I was in school.
My parents loved all jazz. So much for your stereotype.
I remember seeing McCoy Tyner, Sonny Rollins, Ron Carter and Al Jackson perform as a band in Royal Oak, MI, in 1780. During intermission, I shared popcorn with an elderly lady I met who was a seamstress. We both sat there talking about Horace Silver's music and she was so happy she "lived long enough to see my man McCoy play live". I don't think so.
Nevertheless, it is more complicated for the intellect to understand jazz. 3 chords songs are easy to understand that's why country and western, and some rock n' roll songs are popular.
Jazz is far from pretentious, most musicians I know that play jazz, play for just about nothing. They play to express their feelings.
Except for a few popular artists out of thousands, playing jazz for a living would mean starving to death.
Most of jazz clubs or coffee houses are small ''rendez-vous'' places for intellectuals, certainly not the tie guys and martini drinkers.
Most jazz pieces are blues played in a different way and certainly have soul (otherwise it would not be jazz).
I suggest that you listen to a tune called: ''Almost Blue'' by Chet Baker and Bill Evans. That tune has so much soul, I have goose pimple every time I listen to it. (And that's very often).
Most jazz touches my soul like blues touches yours.
I think you like or you don't like jazz. And that's it! Oh for Gawds sake, what's this about. i am a jazz fan both trad and modern. Barber to Basie. High Brow, Martini, I wear the same to a jazz concert as I wore to see BB King and Gary Moore, Jeans and sweat shirt. As for Martini it's Jack and coke for me. You cannot put people into categories anymore than you can tell what they like from appearances. Thumbs up for the guy above me I would have given ya two mate but they won't let me | 